In today’s conversation, Betsy is joined by Saul Garcia, the Vice President of Revenue Operations at Health Recovery Solutions. Join us as they discuss Saul’s journey from SalesOps to RevOps, the power of curiosity in delivering valuable insights, and the exciting possibilities of AI for automating sales and marketing operations. 

Saul Garcia is a people oriented Revenue Operations Leader with a passion for problem solving. With a background in Psychology, and experience in the Health and SaaS industries, he is able to balance out the role of Revenue Operations with soft people skills. He takes pride in being a trusted teammate who collaborates cross-functionally to achieve business goals.

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Speaker 1 (00:04): Welcome to another episode of the Rev-Tech Revolution. Today Betsy is joined by Saul Garcia, the VicePresident of Revenue Operations at Health Recovery Solutions. Join us as they discuss Saul’s journey from sales ops to RevOps, the power of curiosity in delivering valuable insights and the exciting possibilities of AI for automating sales and marketing operations. All this and more coming up on the Rev-Tech Revolution.

Betsy (00:35): Hello, Saul.

Saul Garcia (00:37): How’s it going, Betsy, how are you?

Betsy (00:39): It’s going great. Thank you so much for making some time to join the Rev-Tech Revolution.

Saul Garcia (00:45): It’s a pleasure. I’m excited for this.

Betsy (00:47): We’re thrilled to have you. So let’s dive right in. You’ve had a really fascinating background that got you to your current role at Health Recovery Systems. What made you select this path and what are some important milestones that have taught to you a lot?

Saul Garcia (01:05): My journey takes me from a place where I graduated with a degree in psychology. I worked in counseling for a while, worked in corporate wellness and then eventually found this little role called sales operations and it led me to where I’m at today, and that was eight years ago, which now feels like in the RevOps world a bit, let’s just say I have many more gray hairs than when I started in sales operations. And so important milestones in my career, I think my role that I had in corporate wellness was my first introduction in the corporate/business world. I think that was where I learned a lot of that initial business sense, which you don’t necessarily get a whole lot when your undergrad is in psychology and you’re doing some counseling, et cetera.

I think that got me a little bit more hungry for getting more involved into critical aspects of the business.That’s when I found sales operations, and it’s this unique role that allows you to work with the sales team and support the sales team in a way that you’re an accelerator to the needle. You help accelerate the performance and goal attainment across the organization. Knowing that I’m not a great salesperson, I figured that might be the best fit and role for me. So moving into sales operations as a first role was really eye-opening. It was just a completely different world than what I was in. I certainly felt out of place for a while. I wasn’t sure whether this is the right career change in the career move.

But within time and fairly quickly I was able to pick it up. I would say that that role, which was at a company called ACTIVE Network was a huge milestone for me because that was just the first foray into sales operations. And then after that I got three separate opportunities to grow a sales or revenue operations team from the ground up. Each of those, I think similar in some ways, but also each of those had a really different experience to help mold the, I would say the person and the leader in RevOps thatI am today.

Betsy (03:42): And so just for the listeners, how do you differentiate between sales operations and revenue operations?

Saul Garcia (03:49): That’s a good question, right? Because I think when you think about what that means today versus what it meant eight years ago, I don’t think that question probably would’ve been asked very often eight years ago, right? I think eight years ago it was sales operations and still in its really early development into what it is today. I think at its core, sales operations has evolved into revenue operations. However, now sales operations also means something somewhat different in that it’s a bit more narrowed. So revenue operations in my opinion is this unit team, arm of an organization that bridges the gap to the different silos within an organization, albeit marketing, sales, customer success, account management, accounting and finance, et cetera. And then so sales operations is specifically in my opinion as it pertains to this, again, the operational side of sales. So you’re supporting the sales function. I think back then sales operations was all those until I think the definition got a little bit more narrowed down and more defined. And so now revenue operations is essentially all those things.

Betsy (05:16): And of course technology has proliferated.

Saul Garcia (05:16): Absolutely.

Betsy (05:19): So where absolutely might’ve had absolutely one or two pieces of software to manage and sales ops, now revenue ops has probably 10 or 12 depending on the stack and the objectives.

Saul Garcia (05:32): Absolutely. And even beyond that, it’s not just the managing of the stack, it’s also being aware of the new pieces of technology that are coming out. And so you have to be a bit of a technologist yourself in revenue operations, which again, as I get older and more gray hairs, I’m becoming less and less confident, I would say, on some of the new pieces of technology, but still regardless you have to stay in touch with what’s new out there.

Betsy (06:03): Yes. We talk a lot about technology on this podcast obviously, but I think it’s also very much about the organizational structure that has to adopt the technology and the data that flows through all the various pieces of technology, which are their signals, so to speak, about your customer and the customer journey. It’s in some ways I feel you about the evolution of technology and the constant pace of that evolution, but I think the constants are the humans and the data. So would love to dig in and ask a little bit about that. So tell me a little bit about the biggest challenges you’ve faced with teams throughout your career. How have you navigated those, whether it’s sales and IT teams, or marketing and sales or just a sales team who didn’t want to adopt a technology? Anything that our listeners might relate to in terms of your psychology background and understanding organizational behavior?

Saul Garcia (07:08): That’s probably one of the most, in my opinion, I think when it comes to revenue operations, it’s one of the most underrated but also important aspects of our role. We can tend to unilaterally state new processes or pieces of technology are important for the organization and so therefore adopt or get forgotten about, right? Which I don’t think is very empathic, which you have to have some of that in order to I think excel in change management. I think you have to understand, I think each of these teams certainly have some aspects of their behavior that are similar. You go to 10 different marketing departments at 10 different organizations, you’ll likely find some similarities between all of those. And then obviously some things that are unique. You do the same with sales organizations, you’re going to find likely the same things that are similar, also some things that are unique. But then you also look at marketing and sales, those are generally going to be pretty different. So your approach from a marketing operations perspective might be a little bit different than your approach for, for example, a customer success team. I think it’s really important to know who your customers are, who your audience is. I try to use that term with our team or those terms with my team, which is our customers are the teams that we support, right? So in the same way that we’re enabling the marketing and sales organization to use a different approach for different personas, we also have to understand who our personas are, right?

Betsy (08:16): Yeah, good point.

Saul Garcia (08:54): And manage accordingly based on the different types of teams and the different teams that we’re supporting. Adopting technology or implementing technology, there are certainly challenges to that at every organization, but I think the more that you can get buy-in from the various teams and maybe you ask for some help in buy-in from a champion that is really good with technology, and you also have someone that generally maybe is not great with technology, you have both those people be a part of the training experience and have them then go back to their meeting and say, yeah, I was a part of this and this is why I think it’s going to be helpful for us. I think it’s just trying to find the human aspect to change management is really key to our role.

Betsy (09:48): Absolutely. Well, let’s go to the other topic. Tell me a little bit about finding a balance between raw data and an interpretation of it through one of the various pieces of software you have to support and based on the knowledge of your stakeholders. How do you navigate that using all of the various facets you’ve learned over your career?

Saul Garcia (10:14): That’s something that you certainly have to adapt as well. I think that’s probably, in my opinion, requires a bit more adaptation than perhaps the previous topic. As you mentioned, there are sometimes, especially leaders at the executive level that might have a different understanding and or appreciation for data and how it’s presented and how it’s visualized, what their preferences are, et cetera. I think depending on who you’re working with, when you first jump into a role, keep an open mind because you don’t know quite yet how they prefer data. My current CRO is really data driven and it’s really easy to have conversations about data with him. Previous CROs or heads of sales, I might have to take a different approach. I think you certainly want to adjust your style according to I think what might work best for them. But on the other hand, you as the head of revenue operations or perhaps someone in the revenue ops org,your role is to present data and provide insights. And so while that person may or may not be as into the data and reporting of it as much as you are, your role still is to present the data and to provide insights on how the team is performing, how the organization is performing. And I think it’s really important to know that regardless of whether or not perhaps the audience is excited about the data and the presentation of it as a whole.

Betsy (11:58): And to some extent you sit in a different perch than almost anybody in the organization, you know what the data means more than almost anybody.

Saul Garcia (11:58): Absolutely.

Betsy (12:07): Because it’s easy to log into the CRM and interpret something, pick a field, make a report, and then think you understand what the data means, but it might be a field that was out of date, it might be data that hasn’t been scrubbed. Those things I think are really important context depending on where your CRM data quality is. It could be a full-time job just managing expectations about what the data is actually saying.

Saul Garcia (12:35): I think it is unfortunately a full-time job. But you’re right. I think, a couple things from what you said. A, it’s really important to present the data objectively, I think. But also be open to additional context. And so I think what I mean by that is you go into a conversation, for example, well, we did an analysis of 12 months of lost data. It’s important to say this is what the data is saying. You do have to enforce to some aspect, but I’m not saying that some of these things are cause and effect. This is the data that we have. And also being open-minded to say there is probably some room for improvement in how we track this data, that’s going to be in version two and also moving forward. But at the same time, it’s important because you might say, look, just throwing it out there, Q3 was our worst quarter and we lost more than any other quarter. We lost more dollars, more deals, et cetera.And that’s just what the data is. And so you might try to make a suggestion that we need to do X, Y, Z and change this in Q3, but perhaps there was context around it. Maybe the context is that there was a data cleanup and actually you just cleaned up a ton of old opportunities in Q3, or perhaps something happened within the market. It’s good to have discussions around the data because you can get additional context around what that is as well.

Betsy (14:09): 100%. As you’ve gone through your career, have you had the benefit of always being in a data-driven culture or has it been where you’ve been that data-driven person and you’ve had to convince somebody who made intuition based calls? And tell us a little bit about that evolution and your situations there.

Saul Garcia (14:33): I would say I feel pretty lucky to say that I think I have been in fairly data-driven cultures in organizations, but regardless, I think there’s still some aspects of the organizations that are not as data driven. I’ll give an example where just recently we were thinking about, we’re discussing not renewing a certain piece of technology. I understood the reason why, but when we were talking about it, the data that was being discussed around the reasons for wanting to get rid of that piece of technology, were actually inaccurate. And so I challenged like, hey, I want to make sure that I still agree or playing the contrarian, I want to make sure that we’re talking about this accurately. Let’s come back and at least report on the accurate data, because it was actually a lot more favorable than I think that was being reported. And so that’s just an example where even though the data that was being discussed still led to the same conversation, I think it’s important to have a data driven organization and culture, but an accurate data-driven organization and culture. Just to make sure that when the decision is made, it’s made on the right and accurate data.

Betsy (15:56): Well, to the best of your ability, right?

Saul Garcia (15:56): Correct.

Betsy (15:58): It’s a great point you’re making, is we all have our biases and we may be very data-driven, but tripping abias happens all the time. It’s part of our hardwiring, right?

Saul Garcia (15:58): Absolutely.

Betsy (16:07): So having a culture that calls that out so you can get around your own biases because you’ve got a good group of people helping you do that is probably a real asset.

Saul Garcia (16:18): Totally.

Betsy (16:18): Tell me about your work designing a tech stack. It sounds like you’ve had the opportunity to get rid of things. Tell me about designing. Tell me about criteria that you’ve had to use and let’s just start there. When you come into a new position and you’re either assessing or you’re starting from scratch, what are the first couple things you do?

Saul Garcia (16:49): When I started in sales operations, I was at a much larger organization, about 600 million in revenue. My role in sales operations was strictly reporting. And so I became an expert on all things Excel reporting, Salesforce reporting. Eventually led a team of five where all we did was reporting. And so I think that created a foundation for me, which is, when I come into an organization or I’m assessing the tech stack A, I’m looking at what are we reporting on? And then what are we trying to report on? Because those are not always the same thing. So first, trying to understand what we want to report on and then trying to understand what the needs of the organization are as well. So for me, once I start to have that, and obviously that includes discussions with different stakeholders, different leaders, et cetera, try to understand what are the pieces of technology that are going to help some of the problems that we might have.

And it is going to be different for each organization. Obviously you’re going to have the same, you’re probably going to always going to have a market automation tool, a CRM tool, and those are probably the two that you’re going to have across a sales engagement platform. But then it might depend, and it might be different based on other organizations. For example, maybe there’s a humongous problem with consistency in quoting and maybe you need to bring on a CPQ tool. Maybe there’s a tremendous problem with churn and you need to bring on a customer success tool and perhaps have an integration with your product to start seeing some customer related data in our CRM or in this customer success tool. So I can track who’s logging in, usage, et cetera. I think it just depends on what are the needs of the organization. You have your staples, but I think you have to be pretty adaptable to understand what the organization needs as well.

Betsy (18:53): That’s great. And it sounds like you come at it from what are the questions are we trying to answer and then what are the behaviors we’re trying to, what do I say? In still in the organization?

Saul Garcia (19:06): Absolutely.

Betsy (19:07): Is that fair?

Saul Garcia (19:08): Yeah, it definitely.

Betsy (19:10): That’s good orientation for sure. Then once you’ve come through those two sets of questions, what do you do about data flows and making sure, it sounds like you’re in a situation where it might be two, three, four pieces of the stack, if not more. Now you got data flowing everywhere. What do you do? How do you think about that problem?

Saul Garcia (19:38): It’s a really great question, because I think it’s one of those things that I probably have to, for my own sake, map out perhaps. Because I think it would probably benefit me and perhaps almost put a name to the process that I have. I think for me, it’s going back to the same questions. Because I’ve been in my role now for three years, but the reality is I’m still asking those same questions, right? Which is what does the organization need now, three, six, nine months from now, two years from now plus? And so trying to understand how all these tools talk together, whether it’s for example our CRM, market automation, sales engagement, sales analytics. Now we have Tableau, all these things. What does the organization need and how do I keep it all clean?

And so I think it’s about having a data structure that allows you to seamlessly understand what’s happening between all the different pieces of data and all the different pieces of technology. That’s something we’re currently working on. For example, we don’t have a unique identifier across all of our pieces of technology. We don’t have a unique identifier between CRM, NetSuite, our backend system. That’s something that we need to build out. So admittedly I think that’s something where we probably can do, or I probably can do a bit better a job at. But I think I go back to that, which is, what is important now for the future? How do we structure it that way? But probably could map that outa little bit better.

Betsy (21:23): So let’s go into data from a different aspect. We were talking a little bit earlier about just acknowledging that bad data exists in all of our systems. How do you manage the effect of bad data as you’re feeding this data driven culture?

Saul Garcia (21:41): And when you say effect of bad data, could you elaborate on that a little bit?

Betsy (21:49): For example, say that there is something wrong with a piece of data and it’s flowing through a dashboard that everybody’s using and the downward spiral of trust when data quality issues start to surface. How do you think about that? How do you triage that quickly? How do you regain the trust? Those kind of things. Or maybe it’s never happened to you, but it sure has happened to me.

Saul Garcia (22:13): No, I would love to say it hasn’t happened to me, but it’s definitely happened to me. That’s an excellent question because as you mentioned, data is trust. So if it’s extremely important to double, triple, quadruple check your data integrity and reporting before you launch it off, before you present data to whether it’s in a report or dashboard or whether it’s in a PowerPoint or whatever that may be, it’s important to understand the data as best as possible to make sure that it’s valid and reliable. I’ve talked to my team about constantly being skeptical of the data, even though it’s the data that we’re reporting.If you are constantly skeptical of it, you’ll see something, something maybe doesn’t look right to you, dig into it, double, triple, click into it until you get to the point where you are confident that the data that’s being presented is valid and reliable.

I think the two words for me are validity and reliability. If you’re confident to the point that you feel like that those two are accurate, then I think you can move forward. When you get to a point where, for example, something gets pointed out even after the fact that, hey, this doesn’t look accurate, I think you have to act on that. First, triage, did I send this to a sales manager or did I send this to the board? Right? If it’s to the board, it’s a different level of triage than it is to a sales manager. I think you have to triage that to best understand. And I think once you’ve made a fix to that, I think it’s important to own up to that fix. It is important to then say, hey, I made an error here. The updated number is this. Here is what was wrong with the original data and this is what we’ve done to fix this moving forward.

What that does again is the keyword word, trust. Then you rebuild the trust that okay, this person went through diligence to make sure that this was accurate and correct. And now we feel confident again that this is going to be accurate data moving forward. And I think that trust is rebuilt after that.

Betsy (24:37): And what about situations where it’s not just incorrect data, but it’s lossy data. So you probably rely on humans to input data into CRM and sometimes it’s reliable and sometimes it isn’t. How have you navigated those challenges? Where do you use automation? Where do you use training? How do you get to that spot where you feel like it’s reliable and trustworthy?

Saul Garcia (25:10): I think you always have to try to get to a point where you can automate the things that make sense. AndRevOps we can get to a point where we try to over automate things and then the data starts to not get as reliable anymore. Because there has to be in some instances, some human element to it. But I do think it’s important to automate as much as possible for accuracy. The reality is if there’s manual input of data, you open the door to human error as well. So might have, for example, those lost reasons that I mentioned prior. Doing a loss analysis of lost reasons that are being inputted by the sales team. There’s going to be some element of, this is the interpretation of-

Betsy (26:00): Discretion. Right?

Saul Garcia (26:00): Discretion. And the salesperson might not want to say that they were at fault for the lost deal and say that it was product and product’s lack of X, Y, Z. I think you’re always going to have that. But I do think automate as much as possible, but also have some discretion for the human element as well.

Betsy (26:22): That makes sense. Any tips for us about how not to boil the ocean? What do you just let go when you see data quality problems? How do you prioritize, clearly things that go to the board, you’ve already said that, but any other tips around triage and prioritizing time and data quality?

Saul Garcia (26:47): I think it’s, again, asking yourself the question of, is this urgent? What is the effort, lift required here and what is the impact that it’s going to have? If it’s going to be a three-month lift, a five out of five lift in terms of effort, and then have a level one impact, might not be the best use of resources in time.

Betsy (27:21): And then do you just quarantine it? Do you just say caveat emptor with that stuff or how do you handle that?

Saul Garcia (27:28): Great question. We actually use cases and ticket tracking system within Salesforce to track all those things. And so we do essentially put it on the back burner and say, when we have time we’ll get to these things. Unfortunately some of those stay in that category forever. But I think it’s important for us because we always have it there and we know, we run on two week sprints. And so every month we’ll take a look at those to determine is there anything that now maybe the impact was a one six months ago, maybe it’s three. It’s important to always have those because you can forget about it. But if it’s always a ticket that’s just sitting there, we will go through, we’ll triage them again just to make sure that something’s there.

I have one really small example of that. Truthfully there’s something that we do, without going into too much detail, but it actually bugs me a lot in how we track it. There are certain lost deals that we actually track as a closed one deal. It bugs me to my core, but to fix that, it’s actually, it’s not worth the impact. Because as much as it bugs me and it bugs other people within our team, we are able to just manipulate that, interpret that-

Betsy (28:52): You’re not full a turnout or whatever the case may be.

Saul Garcia (28:55): Right. It’s okay, but it’s not stopping any operations. It’s not stopping the business, it’s not stopping the sales team. It’s just one of those things that’s, it’s a bit of an eye sore to look at, but when we triage it, it actually is not worth the lift that’s going to be required to fix it. So that’s a good example of, that’s an impact of maybe like 0.5 with an effort of three or four.

Betsy (29:19): Yep. That’s really important I think. Let me shift gears again and ask you how you stay up to date with all the latest trends and developments. We started this off by saying this whole entire area of revenue operations didn’t exist eight years ago. So how are you surfing the tide here?

Saul Garcia (29:41): I think there’s a couple ways, A, I try to stay in touch with different RevOps communities. The reality is I don’t have all the time in the world to get a demo for every single new product that’s out there. And at the same time I probably will not get the honest review of what that product is from a team that might be selling it, right? But it’s good to hear things from my peers as well, that have tried it. At the same time it is important to still take those demos and to see what the new pieces of technology that are out there are offering. There are tools that I used four years ago that I thought were the absolute best, and now unfortunately this is not the case anymore.

Betsy (30:32): It flips.

Saul Garcia (30:34): There’s new pieces of technology that are disrupting the industry a little bit and are now leaders in the space. It’s important to stay up to date with these things. So whether it’s through my own personal research, reading, LinkedIn, et cetera, talking to the different peers within my community, just for example, we have a problem at our organization. I might ask the different communities, hey, we have this problem. How have you solved this? Do you do this manually? Is there a piece of technology out there? And what do you use? What have you used? What do you like? And then also just taking on those calls myself and to learn about them.

There’s many instances where I do have to say, actually what you’re offering here is probably not a good fit for where I’m at and where our organization is at, but I actually love what you’re doing, and so I’m more than happy to send people your way, because everybody has different problems that they’re working with in their organization, and your solution might solve many of those problems for people that I know. I think it’s important to share that as well.

Betsy (31:50): You’re talking a lot about communities and learning together. Can you tell us some of these communities or resources that you’re using, you find valuable and couple other examples of how they’ve helped you?

Saul Garcia (32:05): Absolutely. I would say, one of the very, very first communities that I was a part of that I still am a part of is a group called Modern Sales Pros. That is a group that I joined many years ago, which again, I get embarrassed at the time, but that was when I moved into sales operations as sort of, again, I was at a larger organization, had a team of 25 sales ops, and then I became the sole sales ops individual, the team of one, as we call it, at a smaller org. That group was immensely helpful for me, to just learn from them. Other communities that are out there as well are, RevOps Co-op is another one that’s really, really great, that I’m actively involved in. Because marketing operations is not my background, I’m in sales ops, right? That’s where I come from.

There’s one called Marketing Ops Professionals that I love. I’m a bit more of a lurker in there that I mostly read a lot of the posts. I’m not actively posing solutions to them as much, but I do read pretty actively in there. Wizard of Ops is another one that is also really active. And then there’s another one, let me just double check the name here. I don’t want to get it wrong. The RevOps Collective Community is a newer one that I’m pretty actively involved in as well. Those things I think are just really, really helpful for us in the RevOps community, because as you mentioned, it’s still so new that it’s really important to start to learn from each other and from our peers. What I will say that I’ve seen over the past year that’s been really helpful now, is I’ve started to see more courses around ops.

I actually participated in the RevOps Co-op course for revenue operations. That’s led by Jeff Ignacio. I participated in one of those cohorts. There’s a few more that I think one done by Pavilion as well. We’re starting to see that more, and I think that’s really, really great for our RevOps community.

Betsy (34:23): Terrific. Thank you. That’s super helpful. Tell me about your crystal ball. Where do you see the role evolving in the coming years and what skills or knowledge areas do you think are going to become more important?

Saul Garcia (34:40): I think as our role on RevOps continues to evolve, I think the human element that I mentioned earlier of being able to communicate up and down the organization, is going to be increasingly important as we inRevOps want to be considered… Let me rephrase that. As we in RevOps want to have more seats at the table in the decision making process. I think it’s important for us to be really strategic in the organization. I think that element is going to increase in its level of importance. I think also moving forward it’s hard to ignore what AI would potentially have within our roles. I think everybody’s thinking that to be quite honest. And I think that is, we’re already starting to see just as smaller examples, the role that AI has in sales and marketing and content creation and so forth.

I think it’s still somewhat early for revenue operations in terms of on a larger scale. There’s plenty of tools out there that utilize AI. But I think on a larger scale, I think it’s still somewhat early, but that could change in three months as we’ve seen. I think that that’s something that I think we all on RevOps have to keep our eye on. For example, there’s not something that, by no means am I an AI technologist, but there’s not something that I see quite yet that’s going to automate, it’s like a Salesforce happened or something like that. But again, you don’t know what can happen in the next couple months or the next couple years, that could potentially replace some of these things. I think that’s just something for us to keep our eye on and to see what tools out there are going to be able to help make our roles and operations more effective and efficient.

Betsy (36:51): If you were advising somebody who’s relatively new in their career about RevOps and whether it’s the right match for them, what would you say? What’s good background, and where do you think that it could lead a young professional?

Saul Garcia (37:09): I think if you’re curious, if you’re just a naturally curious person, I think RevOps is a great role for you. I find that, we go back to the idea of insights, in my opinion I think if you’re a curious individual, generally speaking you are going to be really great at providing insights, because you’ll see a piece of data or you’ll see a process, or you’ll see an operation and you’ll think, I think that there’s something that can be improved there. I think there’s something better there. I think there’s something deeper there and just continue asking that question over and over again, even if it’s the same problem, data, process, whatever that may be. Those are the people that I think generally speaking are really great operators. But not just that, there’s different roles within operations as well.

If for example, sales, you enjoy the performance driven aspect of sales, but maybe sales is no longer your thing. I think sales ops is great. It’s one of the reasons why I went into sales operations, because I realized that I wanted to be a part of a team that’s measured and performed, and you can see, are we hitting our core or are we not? But actually selling was not my strength, and so sales operations was the fit for me. I think that’s great. Same thing with marketing operations, same thing with CS operations. I would say those are the things that can make someone a great asset to the team in the organization.

Betsy (38:48): Terrific advice. Wonderful. Well, look, we really appreciate all your time and the benefit of all your experience and wish you all the luck in the world as you continue in this great career and hope to see you in some of those communities.

Saul Garcia (39:03): Absolutely. Well, thank you. I appreciate this time, and it’s been really fun speaking with you.

Betsy (39:07): Thanks, Sal.

Speaker 1 (39:12): Thank you for tuning into the Rev-Tech Revolution podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please don’t forget to rate, review, and share this with colleagues who would benefit from it. If you’d like to learn more about how Riva can help you improve your customer data operations, check out rivaengine.com.