This episode of the Riva Rev-Tech Revolution podcast features Victoria Savio, a seasoned veteran in the financial services industry. We delve into the world of data enablement and Victoria’s role in leading a team dedicated to streamlining operations and driving revenue through technology. The conversation explores the challenges and rewards of balancing reactive problem-solving with proactive innovation, the impact of AI on the industry, and the importance of effective teamwork and communication. We also discuss the evolving role of mobile technology and the need for agility in a rapidly changing business landscape.
In her current role, Victoria oversees the business product owners for critical tools, including Salesforce, Snowflake, Adobe Workfront, and other SaaS products, ensuring alignment with business needs and user requirements. She collaborates with various stakeholders across the organization to identify and introduce innovative solutions.
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Ken Lorenz: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome to the Riva Rev-Tech Revolution podcast. With me today is Victoria Savio. She’s the senior vp in out of business and data enablement and Voea investment Management. Welcome to the show, Victoria.
Victoria Savio: Thank you, Ken. I’m glad to be here.
Ken Lorenz: Glad to have you here as well. So tell us a little bit about you and your background.
Victoria Savio: Sure. So I work in traditional financial services asset management, and my role in leading an enablement team. I think probably as most in this field, I had a pretty circuitous path to this type of role. And I started out in more of a traditional project manager, business manager, operational type role and worked at a couple of different companies doing that type of work. And then over time, the portion of my role that was always working with the sales team and helping them to manage how they track their pipeline and how they manage their activities and use Salesforce, I became pretty convinced that needed to be much more of a focus for the firm and that it wasn’t really something that we could do off the side of the desk.
Victoria Savio: You know, if we wanted to be focused on using technology and making it as effective as possible for our teams, then we had to have dedicated resources that really understood the business and could partner with technology to make that happen. And so over the years, particularly as I’ve been at Voya, my role has kind of grown along that path. Wherever it first started out, very focused on supporting just the sales team and just Salesforce. And then eventually that became too big of a job for myself and analyst to do, and other teams started clamoring for requests. They said, oh, wow, we’ve got this team here that can take an idea and a need of ours and figure out a solution and try to implement something.
Victoria Savio: And so that’s how my team is now grown to support our entire operations department as well as our client, VC group sales and marketing. And so we really try to work with all of those different teams as a partner between them and technology to understand what are the needs of the business. How can we make things more efficient and effective through the use of technology, tools, processes, and really help to enable people to generate revenue, take all the hurdles out of their yemenite. And so that’s kind of how I frame things with my team. And it takes a lot of different shapes and sizes and colors and variations depending on the day, the week, the month, the project, the company. But I think the underlying theme is always efficiency, effectiveness, and enabling teams to drive revenue.
Ken Lorenz: Awesome. Awesome. So, and I’ve got a friend in the background, which is going to distract everybody on that’s watching our call today, but that is what it is. When you think about the work that your team is doing, how much of it would you say is proactively reaching out to the business and looking for ways to improve what they’re doing versus reacting to requests that are coming into your team?
Victoria Savio: That’s a great question. I would say the ambition is always to have it be much more proactive than reactive. But the world we live in, there’s always a lot of reacting that we need to do. So I would say it’s probably about 50 and sometimes a combination of both. A team might come to us and say, hey, we’re having a problem with a, B and C. We can’t track things the way that we want, or we can’t get this insight. Do we have a way that we can do that? Could we just. This is my favorite. Can we add a field for this? And I always say to our sales team, do you really want another field to fill out? Because the favorite thing I hear is there’s too much to fill out. It’s manual. We’re doing data entry.
Victoria Savio: We’re not out selling, we’re not out driving the business. And so that’s when it bulk to my team to try and take that reactionary environment of, hey, there’s something that’s wrong that we have to fix, but come up with a more proactive solution that says, okay, well, if we understand what you’re trying to get to, then let’s think about a different way to solve that problem. And maybe we can derive a value from other information. Maybe we can streamline an existing data point that we have and have it be more impactful so that we don’t have to have a separate data point.
Victoria Savio: And so I would say that’s a, we try to encourage my team in particular, to take a more proactive approach to things and not be order takers and just executing on requests, but really to be in every conversation we’re having, try to have that thought leadership and strategic approach to say, is this really the way that we want to do this? Does this help us in the long run? Because it’s such a waste of our time and technology, time at a team’s time. If we implement something that is an interim solution, and six months down the road, or twelve months down the road, we say, you know what? This isn’t working. Let’s unwind it. We’ll do something different. We have to retrain people so we really try to avoid that. There are some things where, yeah, we just need a fix.
Victoria Savio: We’ve got a problem we need to solve today. But I like to try and be as proactive as possible. And sometimes there’s things that we say to the team, hey, we found XYZ tool, or this type of functionality. Would that be helpful? We think it might be. And sometimes they say no. And they say, you know what, maybe in a couple of years if we’re there. But we’re not really focused on that right now. So there’s sometimes that, you know, what we’re thinking is a cool shining of functionality might not really be impactful for the day to day of our users.
Ken Lorenz: I can tell you sound like my head of Rev ops when I call her up and I say, I need one more field. And I think it’s a balance, right. If the business is working really hard and trying to understand what’s happening in the business and measure what’s happening and correct it, there’s data points that aren’t being captured today, that need to be captured tomorrow in order to vet out, let’s say, a hypothesis of what’s happening. And yet it does happen, where it’s like, yep, let’s try this. Six months later we go, well, that didn’t really answer the question. Let’s unwind it, put it back in place again the way it was. Which drives our remops teams crazy.
Victoria Savio: Yeah, I did a program about a year ago, and it was through money Management institute and UVa Garden, and it was an executive innovation program, essentially, and it was really focused on how do we get executives to take more of a design thinking approach and be able to try something, fail fast, fail smart, and move on. And instead of creating a six month project that’s going to take a ton of resources, can we do something where, all right, let’s make a little tweak now, see how that works, and let’s iterate and keep things moving so that we can try to be more nimble. There’s a lot in this type of field in particular, where we can’t be nimble. There’s a number of regulatory hurdles, compliance hurdles, resource challenges.
Victoria Savio: So as much as we can on a day to day basis, try to experiment and test and learn and then go from there, we can have, I think, more of an impact that way sometimes where we don’t need to formalize a project proposal and get approvals and all of that I think a lot of people in large corporations have to deal with.
Ken Lorenz: No, completely understood. So you mentioned shiny objects in new technologies that come out. Would you say you’re spending more time evaluating shiny objects or spending time evaluating existing technologies and figuring out which one to get rid of?
Victoria Savio: I would say in terms of comparing a new shiny object to something we already have, it’s a lot easier to look for the new stuff and say, oh, this would be great, and we’ll just add it on. And so I think that’s the natural tendency to go that direction and say, okay, well, this is great. This will solve all of our problems. If we just get this one tool approved, then everything will better. And it’s rarely the case that happens. And, you know, I would say historically, we’ve been much more focused on bringing in new functionality. And over the past year, as my team has grown, we’ve had more bandwidth to do, I would say, more of the house cleaning type of activities, which is a real privilege.
Victoria Savio: And I’m really glad that we’ve been able to do some of that now because there are things that well, look at in our environment and say, well, why are we still running this process? Do we need it? Why are we collecting this information? Are we still reporting on it? And it’s a luxury in a business that’s moving fast to be able to do that and say, hey, can we stop this or can we pair it back? But I think it’s actually been really valuable.
Victoria Savio: And even just from a user experience, sometimes that type of cleanup, eliminating the clutter on a page layout that people are looking at or streamlining the field on a new record creation screen so that you’re just seeing the critical information and not all the other support list things that you could populate in the 10% of scenarios where you have that information, it’s those types of little things that are the easiest things to kick down the road and never get to in the backlog.
Victoria Savio: But now that we’ve been getting to some of those activities, I feel like they’ve been having more of an outsized impact relative to the effort because it makes the existing tools that we use start to feel like those shiny new objects without us actually having to go and get security approvals and technology approvals and funding approvals and all of that to bring something to it. And so the more that we can take that step back and look at, all right, can we streamline things or when’s the last time that we met with an account manager? Does this tool have functionality? In a recent release that we don’t know about.
Victoria Savio: Maybe we’re evaluating a new tool because we think that this technology doesn’t have something, but it’s possible that they’ve released it in the past twelve months and we haven’t been paying attention and we haven’t been hearing that. So, you know, I think it’s hard to find the time to do those things, and it’s very easy for us to get bogged down on the day to day of all right, we’ve got a backlog of things to do. We’ve got daily scrums and chili experience. And so it’s been nice now having a team that has more of the flexibility to be able to take that step back and be a little bit more thoughtful.
Ken Lorenz: Excellent. So I’m going to put a pin in the two week sprints. I’m going to come back to that in a sec. But when you think about some of these new technologies in general, what kinds of technologies are you looking at? What’s coming across your desk these days that gets you excited?
Victoria Savio: Sure. For me, what’s the most exciting is anything that enables us to be more mobile, particularly for our sales team that’s traveling, and then anything that can streamline functionality, add to automation. AI is a component of that. But the mobile piece is a big one for us. Our teams and most sales teams are not sitting at a desk and a laptop day in and day out. And one of the things that I hear from our salespeople a lot is, well, hey, if in my personal life, I could pick up my cell phone and I can do this and I can ask Alexa to remind me of something, or I can, you know, make a follow up or really quickly get to information, why can’t I do that in my professional experience?
Victoria Savio: And why is it that I have to go back to my laptop and log in and be connected to Wi Fi and all of these things, it inhibits us in our ability to be nimble while we’re out meeting with clients if we can’t get to data that we need. And that’s been a real challenge for a number of reasons, right. The primary one is just security, making sure that we can have controls around that and flexibility, and then the second has been making sure that the tools that we’re using are ready for. You don’t need the full functionality of a CRM in your cell phone. You probably need five or six quick actions that you’re going to do on a regular basis.
Victoria Savio: And so we historically had tried to do the full project of let’s review everything and let’s make every screen perfect for mobile. And more recently, we pivot. We said, you know what, we’re never going to get there if we do it that way. Let’s focus on a handful, less than five value add pieces of functionality. If we can strip everything else away and deliver those three click hit options to let someone get the information that they need on the road, then that’s probably going to be a pretty big time saver for people in a pretty big value add, a lower lift from our standpoint. So it kind of goes back to that. All right, how do we test them more quickly? Let’s stop trying to do these broad scale projects. They’re going to take us 612 months.
Victoria Savio: And let’s start to see how we can unpack that and do something in a smaller scale and just deliver faster.
Ken Lorenz: When you think about it’s really interesting. We’ve had mobile technology for 15 years, 20 years now. Covid took it away, or took away the need for it. So went back to desktop 2.0 and multiple curved screens and all that happy stuff. Now the pandemic’s over, we’re back out in the field again. And I think a lot of organizations like you are rethinking their mobile strategy. Having all of Salesforce as an example available to you on a phone doesn’t make sense. If I’m in an Uber between appointments or I’m on a train, what can I do in 15 minutes? What can I do in five minutes? What can I do in two minutes? Sitting in the lobby waiting to meet with a client?
Victoria Savio: Yeah, no, I think there was definitely a lot of reprioritization and recalibration that happened with COVID and it took our teams a lot of time to catch up on that and realize, okay, we shifted one way and the pendulum did swing, but now it’s swinging back and we have to again recalibrate and refocus to what do our users need now in a world of 2024 where they are back out in the field and they need that functionality?
Ken Lorenz: Exactly. So AI was something you mentioned there. Tell me a little bit about your thoughts around AI and how you’re thinking about that. I mean, the word that keeps on ringing in my ears is democratization of AI. And I think if you’re not using something like chat GPT at its very basic form, you’re going to get run over pretty quick. But there’s so much more else that’s out there. I’m curious what your thoughts are on AI.
Victoria Savio: Sure. My personal thoughts are I love AI. I think it’s great. You certainly need controls around it. And I think there’s a lot of scenarios where we’re seeing that companies that are developing AI solutions are sometimes getting ahead of themselves and losing control of it and we’re seeing bias in results. And that’s something that certainly everyone needs to be cautious about. How can we implement this in a responsible way and get the value add but minimize our risk at the same time? And so for me, I think the biggest thing that we can do right now for our team is try to find those small scale areas where we can deliver AI type functions without having to create a whole AI product. Dark south my team is not a software development team, we’re not an AI team of experts.
Victoria Savio: But this is where there’s a lot of tools that are now getting embedded with AI functionality and can we leverage those, can we turn them on and start to use some of that functionality and maybe it’s a next best action. Here’s something that you need to call, you haven’t called in a while, so I think there’s a lot of opportunities for us to leverage that. You know, my team, at least where this web ops type function, we’re not going to be the ones that are, you know, designing a brand new solution. But I think in collaboration with teams that have a real focus on that, we can come up with ways to use information. We have come up with different AI use cases and then partner with the experts to let that make it happen.
Victoria Savio: But I think as much as we can just again try to streamline and use AI for things like pulling out key discussion points from email traffic so that we can see a spike in what products that we’re talking about? Is there something that’s becoming more popular now that maybe we aren’t seeing as a broad trend, but we’re starting to see the pieces of that, there’s some small scale ways like that we can start to implement AI. And I think the other piece is going back to the mobile functionality, that ability to say, hey Siri, what’s the last time I talked to this plane and what did we talk about? We don’t have that functionality right now.
Victoria Savio: And so in my Siri heard me, but we don’t have that type of functionality to be able to ask our data questions right now or ask ourselves questions and particularly on Google. So that’s one thing that my team has been particularly interested in. Can app that will enter information on the top of their mind or can we enable them to better pull information out of some of our systems so that they can quickly ask, hey, when’s the last time I met with Ken? Can you remind me what his concerns were and be able to garner some of that information? So I think there’s a lot of opportunities, but I think at least in the financial services industry and in a rev op type world, we’re probably not going to be the ones that are leading the charge on brand new ways of implementing AI.
Ken Lorenz: Yeah, I think AI output, customer facing output is certainly a dangerous area to a certain degree. But you mentioned call notes or meeting notes. That’s a huge opportunity to capture the entire meeting, summarize it, boil it down, extract out the action items and the to do items and automatically start creating some of that internally. That’s the part of the job that drives advisors and bankers nuts. Right. And they typically hand that work off to an EA to do it for them. Now you don’t need that person to do that. That person could do something more effective. I said I was going to put a pin in the two week spreads.
Victoria Savio: Yeah.
Ken Lorenz: So how long have you been doing that and what does that look like for your team and how do you divide that work up in terms of presenting that back to the business before rollout?
Victoria Savio: Sure. So our team that’s focused on supporting Salesforce has been using two week sprints for probably about a year and a half now. And we’ve had a lot of success with that. And part of that has been having really good partnership between the product owners on my team and our bas and developers. And we really focused on, okay, if we want to do this thing called agile and actually try to make it work, then we need to really focus on it and go for it. And so we had some great leadership who said okay, we need to formalize everything we do. We need to have spread planning, to have spread retros, we need to have refinement calls, we need to do backlog for being, we need to accurately story point. And so a lot of that was new for me.
Victoria Savio: Like I mentioned, I came out of more of a business manager type role. I know agile training, some of my team did. But once everybody kind of, we all agreed together between the development teams and my team, yes, this is going to help us. Let’s do it. We’ve been really successful with implementing that and I think it’s been a real value add. Now that’s not every team that I worked with. There’s a lot of other teams that are still kind of dipping their toe into agile. And that’s I think where also the benefit of my type of team, whether you’re calling it enablement or product managers or rev ops, right.
Victoria Savio: Having somebody that can really be that voice of the business with technology is really critical because otherwise you end up with developers feeling like they’re pushing on a string because they’re not getting testing done fast enough, they’re not getting answers on clarification questions fast enough. And if you’re trying to move quickly through a development spread, you need to have that close partnership with the person who’s going to be able to answer those questions.
Victoria Savio: And so that’s where now that my team has a lot broader focus in terms of the applications that we support, we can help to be that partner to all of our development teams to say, okay, let’s really focus on this and have that hand in hand collaboration, because otherwise if we’re not there to be a partner and a resource, then it’s really hard for other teams to be successful in that. When you don’t have that partnership in terms of how we tape the information of our prioritization and bubble it back up to the business, it happens in a couple of different ways. On a more frequent cadence, we send out release notes targeted to the sales teams of the users. Every two weeks they get an email. Here’s what we’ve released, here’s what we’re working on. Screenshots with arrows.
Victoria Savio: They know exactly how to find things. We have regular cadences with end users on training, reiterating new functionality, making sure that their questions are answered, that they’re aware of anything new that we’re rolling out. And then at a more strategic level, you know, we’ve got quarterly review cycles where we look at all projects that we’re working on. Agree prioritization, agree online, you know, what projects have more deadlines, what projects, you know, are a little bit more flexible. And then, you know, it’s really with my team to help carry that for everyone day to day, week to week basis.
Ken Lorenz: Got it, thank you. That I think so many rev ops teams don’t go down that route and they end up very reactive to things that are happening. And then while they don’t call it a backlog, the backlog just goes on forever.
Victoria Savio: Yeah. Now that I am more experienced with having a backlog, a portable backlog, I’m a huge fan. And now my team uses it in a bunch of different scenarios, even things that we’re not working on with the developer team having a clear list of. Here’s the other things that we’ve been asked to do that might not need a developer, it might not be a priority, but let’s keep a running list of those, and let’s review it on a periodic basis and see how we solve for this with something else that we’re doing. Do we have capacity to do this alongside what we’re doing?
Victoria Savio: And maybe we can bring something in, but I think that’s also where it helps us and the teams that we work with to feel like, hey, we’ve kind of got a clear backlog of other things that we can be doing, then it’s easy to fill in the gaps when you have time or you have additional capacity or anything like that. Otherwise, if you’re just trying to think of, okay, what else can we bring in? What else can we be working on right now? It’s always only going to be those top priority headline projects that you could get done. And so my team pulled it. The big rocks. The little rocks. The pebbles. Like, how do we fill that vase and start with the big rocks? Those are the non negotiables have to get done, and then we’ve got small rocks.
Victoria Savio: You know, maybe there are specific features or functionality, but then we’ve always got couples. There’s always those. Those little nits that are never going to be a true priority. But if we can do it might just help take some of the virtual awesome.
Ken Lorenz: So I’m just watching our time, and we’ve got room for probably three more questions, and I’ll try to keep them. I’ll keep them pretty straightforward for you. What. What books or what things are you reading that are inspiring you these days? And it doesn’t have to be about technology.
Victoria Savio: Yeah, I generally don’t read about technology or business. I find that, you know, for that mediums like podcasts are a lot easier for me to digest. It wasn’t too long ago, and also over time, you know, I find that I’d rather listen to what someone’s doing last week than two years ago, especially given the speed with which the types of things that I do changes. Right. The functionality that my team’s talking about now, it didn’t exist a couple of years ago, so that’s my preference in terms of reading. I’m a huge reader. I definitely prefer fiction, but I always try to sprinkle in a little nonfiction here and there. But I love anything historical fiction.
Victoria Savio: For me, it’s a great way to kind of get a little bit of history with a good storyline, and then I can go, I end up down a rabbit hole on Google trying to look things up and realizing how much I don’t know. So I kind of do a mix.
Ken Lorenz: So I got to put a little part b on that question. So what was your biggest aha lately?
Victoria Savio: Biggest aha.
Ken Lorenz: As you were going through historical affection?
Victoria Savio: Yeah, I was reading a book, although, like, we cannot see. Very popular book. And I learned a practical use case for trigonometry.
Ken Lorenz: Really?
Victoria Savio: Yes. Which is like, everybody learns it in school, and they go, I’m never going to use triglycerides.
Ken Lorenz: I’ll never use trig to balance my checkbook.
Victoria Savio: I’ll never use Trig. They were using trigonometry to triangulate where radio broadcasts were coming from. Basically, if they put one radio in one place at a certain frequency, another radio at a certain place, and they knew the distance between the tube and the frequencies, and then they could figure out how to tune into the third, they could use trigonometry to find the location. And that blew my mind.
Ken Lorenz: Very cool. Very cool.
Victoria Savio: Yep.
Ken Lorenz: All right, so last real question.
Victoria Savio: Sure.
Ken Lorenz: Early in your career, you worked for New York Stock Exchange. If you could go back there, and I won’t say how far back that was, but if you could go back there and meet yourself as you took on that intern job, what advice would you give yourself today?
Victoria Savio: So I’m laughing because I’m thinking of a recent Iowa Deborah interview where she said, well, I can’t go back and tell my younger self something because of the rules of time travel. But I think that, I think I probably would just tell myself to be more confident in what I thought I wanted to do. Right. I think that especially early on, there are a lot of opportunities that I felt like, well, I’m not ready for that, or I don’t know that I would be a good fit, or I don’t know what that things have made. And I think especially when you’re early in your career, that’s a great way to learn, even if it’s just asking, hey, can I be applying on the well in this project meeting?
Victoria Savio: Because I don’t know about that area that I want to learn, and my natural inclination is not to do that. I’m an introvert. I am not comfortable meeting new people. Introducing myself is always a jarring experience. But I think that the more that you do that and step out of your comfort zone, especially in a workplace, and make those connections with people, it makes a big difference down the line. And I think especially with now a lot of teams being remote, it’s a lot harder to do to form those relationships, but it really makes a difference day to day.
Ken Lorenz: Absolutely. I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve got people on my, well, now I’ve met everybody on my team, but I had a couple of people that were on my team that I’d never physically met and it left the company without physically meeting them, which is kind of weird.
Victoria Savio: Yes, yes. And it is amazing. You know, I think my team’s remote. They’re all over the world between India, east coast, West coast, and when we can get together in person, even just in an hour, meeting over lunch, the conversations are so different than they are I or anything with the really get to know people better. And so I have a lot more appreciation for that now and saying, all right, let me step out from behind the camera and the computer screen and let’s actually go out of our way to see people in person. It makes a big difference.
Ken Lorenz: Excellent. Excellent. So I have one more question for you, but if you watch any of our podcasts, I’ve got a tradition. The last question is yours. Victoria Savio: Last question is mine. So I will ask, what has been your aha moment over doing these podcasts? You know, like something that I guess said that really made you stop.
Ken Lorenz: Well, besides having a great face for radio, the that’s a great question. I’ve really enjoyed getting to know people that I’ve never met. Maybe I’m a little introverted to a certain degree, too. And so my role is kind of driving the podcast is I get to ask really interesting questions. One of my mentors, and I’ll leave the name out because it’s political at this point, but one of my mentors, you know, talked about, what questions did you ask today? What was the best question you asked today? Now, what did you learn? Did you behave yourself? Right? What did you accomplish? What questions did you ask? And so this has been very cathartic for me, to be able to ask questions and really draw out who individuals are and what they’re passionate about.
Ken Lorenz: So to me that’s been the biggest aha for me, that I’ve been able to do that and really enjoy it. And I think my guests have enjoyed it, too.
Victoria Savio: That’s great. I’ll add one thing to your question about what I might tell my younger self. A few years into my career, I dropped the ball on something. Everybody does it. And I was working for a really great manager at the time, and they said to me, the most important thing that you can do is manage up and learn from other people’s mistakes so that you don’t have to make those mistakes yourself. And, you know, my inclination as the junior person on the team was, well, I don’t want to bug my manager and remind them of these things that they wanted to do and that we haven’t done. And, you know, at the end of six months, we hadn’t completed the project and the leader of the team basically said, you know, you could have helped to drive that.
Victoria Savio: If you were helping to manage that through, then we could have gotten that done. Because your manager has a dozen other things going on and they don’t always have the line of sight through to, alright, I asked about that a couple of months ago and I wanted to make sure I got that and said, they said, don’t let it get to that point. And that was really a great opportunity for me to sit back and go, okay, wait, I have to approach this differently. But the learning from other people’s mistakes was also really impactful to me.
Victoria Savio: I share that with a lot of the junior people on my team now that when you look at other people that you interact with, whether it’s personally and professionally, and you see someone that you don’t think handles a situation well or their career path was taken at a path that you don’t want, take the moment to look at that and really try to understand for yourself, what should I do differently so that I don’t have someone think of me? Right. If I think that someone didn’t handle a situation while at the manager, then let me remember that. So when I’m in a manager position, I treat my employees differently and handle a situation better. And I think it’s really great way to just re bring that everything is a learning opportunity. Every, every interaction that you have, you can take something away from.
Victoria Savio: And so I still try to remind myself to do that and look at what I think people are doing well, but also what I think people might not be doing well and figure out what that means for me.
Ken Lorenz: Absolutely well, and that’s great advice. And the managing up piece, I couldn’t agree with you more. I think that is, and I don’t want to go down a generational route, but as we’ve got new generations coming into the workforce, that’s a skill that would serve them well. To learn early is you’ve got to manage up. I ask my team to do that every day. If you’re not telling me what you need to be successful, I can’t help you get the obstacles out of the way.
Victoria Savio: Yep.
Ken Lorenz: And that skill is almost more important than managing down.
Victoria Savio: It is. It is. And it’s something that I still encounter. Right. But it. I think you’re exactly right. My job as a manager and a leader is to help my team better, help them grow, help them improve. But it has to be a partnership.
Ken Lorenz: Absolutely. Well, Victoria, it’s been an absolute pleasure. I can’t believe 52 minutes have flown by as fast as they have. So thank you very much for being on the show, and I look forward to talking to you in the future as well.
Victoria Savio: Thank you, Ken. I really appreciate it.